East Kingdom Fencing Mailing List FAQ
Ver 1.0 (Established 28 April 1995)

1.0 EK_Fencing Administrivia
1.1 History
1.2 How to get off the list
1.3 How to talk to a human

2.0 What is the SCA?
2.1 Brief intro
2.2 SCA Faq addresses (ftp & www)

3.0 What is SCA Rapier Combat?
3.1 Brief description
3.2 History
3.3 List all the fencing kingdoms

4.0 What are rules for the East Kingdom?

5.0 How is SCA fencing different from USFA/FIE fencing?
5.1 Scoring
5.2 Weapons forms
5.3 Learning more about USFA/FIE Fencing

6.0 How is EK fencing different from other kingdoms?

7.0 Where can I get equipment?

8.0 Eastern Fencing Titles and Awards
8.1 Order of the Golden Rapier
8.1.1 Description
8.1.2 Kingdom Law
8.1.3 Badge
8.1.4 OGRE/WS Treaty
8.2 EK Cording Structure
8.2.1 History
8.2.2 Structure
8.2.3 Cords vs. OGRE
8.2.4 Use of title 'Don'
8.3 Order of the Guardsman
8.4 Other Kingdom Fencing Titles and Awards

Appendix:
A. Fencing Suppliers
East Kingdom Fencing Mailing List FAQ
Ver 1.0 (Established 28 April 1995)

This FAQ is maintained by Don Dylan ap Maelgwn (John D. Murray). If you wish to submit material or suggest improvements, please do not send them to the mailing list, but directly to him. His email address is: dylan@netaxs.com

The WWW Page version of this FAQ is maintained by 1.0 ADMINISTRIVIA
1.1 History

Danulf wanted to create a list and attempted to get one started at a friendly site at MIT. Unfortunately, this site could not seem to get its act together, so he, with lots of prodding by Dylan and Tomas turned to Lord Fergus, who knew another list administrator who had his act together.
The primary reason for this list is to serv as a communication vehicle for East Kingdom Fencers. If you are from the East and are a fencer this is the list for you. Other interested gentles are our welcome guests.
Go Back to the Index
1.2 How to get on/off the list

To subscribe send mail to : listproc@apocalypse.org with the following line:
  subscribe ek_fencing
in EITHER the body or the subject (not in both, and if you put it in the body, leave the subject line blank.) To unsubscribe, do exactly the same, but change the word "subscribe" to "unsubscribe"

To find out more about listproc, and how to do things like change your mail address, send mail, again to listproc@apocalypse.org, with the message HELP
Go Back to the Index
1.3 How to talk to a human

Lord Fergus MacRae (Clark Wright) is the admin for this mailing list. He can be reached at fencing_admin@apocalypse.org.
Back to the Index
2.0 What is the SCA?
2.1 History
The Society for Creative Anachronism is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to learning and recreating aspects of the middle ages. It covers a time period roughly from 600-1600 AD, and has a wide variety of activities and interests in which one may participate. This FAQ covers fencing or rapier combat activity in the East Kingdom.
Back to the Index
2.2 SCA FAQs
If you are interested in learning more about the SCA, please check the Usenet Newsgroup rec.org.sca (also known as The Rialto. A FAQ for the Rialto can be found via FTP at: 
rtfm.mit.edu  /pub/usenet/rec.org.sca
It can also be found at:
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu:80/text/faq/bngusenet/rec/org/sca/top.html

A WWW page for the East Kingdom can be found at:
http://www.tiac.net/staff/zach/east.html

A WWW page for the SCA can be found at:
http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~rodmur/sca/
Back to the Index
3.0 What is SCA Rapier Combat?
3.1 Description
SCA rapier combat is recreation of rapier fighting techniques, generally considered to be the time period encompassing 1500-1600. Bouts are fought 'in the round' and any cuts or thrusts are body specific, a blow to an arm disallows the use of that arm, while a blow to the head or chest will result in a kill. Bouts could be fought to the death/disablement of one's opponent or they could be fought to first or second blood. The offhand can be used to block an opponent's attack, or a combattant may use a second weapon (or buckler, or cloak, etc.) in the offhand.
Back to the Index
3.2 History of SCA Fencing
SCA rapier combat had many false starts and didn't take hold until 1979, when, in ansteora, Don Tivar Moondragon (the Society Deputy Marshal of Fence) came up with the first version of the rules of rapier combat.

Fencing in the East began in fits and starts as well, but was underway by 1985.
Back to the Index
3.3 List of Fencing Kingdoms
As of 28 April 1995, the following kingdoms have some form of rapier combat:
Back to the Index
4.0 What are the rules for the East Kingdom?
The complete rules of fence for the EK can be found in the East Kingdom home page:

http://www.www.tiac.net/staff/zach/fenceindex.html
Back to the Index
5.0 How is EK-SCA fencing different from USFA/FIE fencing?
The FIE is the official regulatory body for olympic-style fencing. In the US, its the USFA. Olympic-style fencing consists of three weapon forms: foil, sabre, and epee. There are very specific rules and international standards for this sport.
Back to the Index
5.1 Scoring
USFA fencing is done on a strip. A standard bout is won by winning all (or the majority in the maximum time) the touches of that bout (5 touches for a 4 minute bout or 15 touches in a 15 minute bout). Electrical scoring equipment is used in most cases. A referee is used to direct and determine validity of each touch. Foil and saber use right of way to determine the validity of a touch, but epee only requires that a touch land before the opponents touch. In epee, the electrical scoring device locks out any touches that arrive a fraction of a second after any touch arrives (epee allows for double touches within in this fraction of a second).

While USFA/FIE fencing relies on a scoring box and a director to determine who hit whom, as well as the validity of the touch, SCA Rapier Combat relies instead on each fencers honor and honesty to call the blows that land accurately.
Back to the Index
5.2 Weapons forms
In olympic style fencing there are only three fencing forms.
Foil
a flexible point only weapon with a targe area of the torso-only requiring right-of-way
Epee
a stiff point-only triangular weapon with no right-of-way requirements
Sabre
a 'Y" or shaped weapon light and flexible uses both edge point requires right of way. >
At no time are two hands used by a fencer. Nor are multiple weapon forms used in the same set of bouts.

In contrast, EK SCA fencing allows the use of foils and epee's in the same tournament field, but does not allow sabre. Its weapon forms are:

In all cases, the fencer may use both hands. When using a single rapier, the other hand is considered to be armoured with a mailed glove which would protect against cuts to that hand, but not thrusts.

A bout consists of a duel between two fencers to:
the death
a blow to a vital area (torso, neck, head, groin) or disablement of two limbs
second blood
disablement of a limb
first blood
a non-killing wound
It is done in the round and there is no time limit. While there is no director, we have a marshal who ensures that both fencers are safe, their equipment is safe, and that any onlookers are not placed in risk.
Back to the Index
5.3 How can I learn more about USFA/FIE fencing?
Rec.sports.fencing is a usenet newsgroup dedicated to fencing. It is mostly about modern, USFA fencing, but there is also some discussion on suppliers, manufacturers and the occasional discussion of SCA fencing matters. A FAQ file for the group is posted two times a month, and can also be found at: http://www.ii.uib.no/~arild/fencing/faq/Top-view.html
and via ftp: rtfm.mit.edu /pub...
Back to the Index
6.0 How is EK fencing different from other kingdoms?
Fencing rules are not that different from kingdom to kingdom, and it should not be difficult to adapt to new rules. Many kingdoms sponsor tourneys using their own rules every year at Pennsic.

Without getting bogged down in details, differences include level of calibration, use of tip cuts, length of draw in a valid draw cut, number of cuts to kill/disable, etc.

Some kingdoms have different philosophies about fencing. In the Midrealm for instance, they do not duel, instead they prefer to display their skill with the rapier.

Information about SCA fencing in other kingdoms, as well as period rapier combat can be found at the following:
http://mac9.ucc.nau.edu/fencing.html
 http://www.primenet.com/~valenti/
 Back to the Index
7.0 Where to get equipment
There is a list of fencing supply companies at the end of the FAQ. (See Appendix A). There are probably others, but this should get you started.

Also, there are several SCA members who make and sell period and period-looking equipment. Some SCA members may also be licensed dealers for the fencing suppliers. Ask around your area for some names.

They include:
Poppin Jay
c/o Adam Williams
Winter Street, Bangor, ME
(specializes in custom SCA equipment)

Terrence the Arcane
c/o Terry Marr
7 Devonshire Dr.
RD 22
Mays Landing, NJ 08330

Out of Kingdom:
Scottie Armoury
PO Box 682
Lockett Springs Ranch
Williams, AZ 86046
http://www.rapiers.com/catalog.html
Disclaimer: I do not represent any of the above listed merchants. If you know of other SCA merchants selling and/or making fencing supplies, please contact Dylan.
[TOP] Back to the Index
8.0 Eastern Fencing Titles and Awards
8.1 Order of the Golden Rapier
8.1.1 Description
The Order of the Golden Rapier (OGR or OGRE) is a Kingdom Order of Merit, on par with the other Eastern High Orders (Tyger's Combattant, Maunche, etc) and carries with it an Award of Arms. This means that the crown must consult with the members of the Order before giving the award to someone. Note that the crown must seek the advice of the order, but does not have to follow it. The OGRE has nothing to do with the marshallate, although all or most OGREs are marshals.
Back to the Index
8.1.2 Definition of the Golden Rapier in Kingdom Law
The Order of the Golden Rapier (established 26 April, A.S. XXVI by Ruslan and Margaret) shall be given to people in the East Kingdom whom the Crown shall consider to have distinguished themselves by excellence in the art of Fence by consistently demonstrating superior prowess in the lists, by teaching and by helping to promote and expand the knowledge of their art.
Back to the Index
8.1.3 Badge of the Order
The badge of the Order is as follows:
Fieldless, a tyger's head cabossed azure, j'essant of a rapier, Or. Also known as tyger-ka-bob :)
Back to the Index
8.1.4 OGRE/WS Treaty
On 1 April AS XXIX, TRM Gregor and Christence signed a modified version of the White Scarf treaty (and ratified by the other kingdoms), stating that we recognize the White Scarves of the other kingdoms as our equals and vice versa. Any White Scarf who moves to the East would be considered to be a member of the the OGRE for matters of polling etc.
White Scarves would wear only the badge and regalia for their award and OGREs would do likewise (ie, wear the regalia/badge awarded by _your_ kingdom).
Back to the Index
8.2 EK Cording Structure
8.2.1 Description
The East Kingdom Cording structure was introduced in AS XXII at Boredom War I, and established at Pennsic later on that summer. It was basically created to compensate for what some felt were inadequacies of the kingdom fencing award - the Order of the Guardsman. Members of the structure are denoted by a colored cord worn on the shoulder (usually the left shoulder); colors are black, green, blue and gold. To advance in rank, a candidate is basically voted upon by members of higher rank. There have been proposals to modify the system and allow the playing of prizes for advancement (see below for advancement in period), but this is not official. Many people are using the prize system anyway, with a modicum of success.

The structure is based on the Academy of Defense, which had its hayday in Elizabethan London. The rankings in period were Free Scholar, Scholar, Provost and Master. To advance in rank, a candidate had to get the blessing of his teacher and then call a prize. A prize was a display of skill in which the candidate(s) showed their prowess with different weapons forms, including halberd and backsword! A candidate had to pay for this privelege - recipients included his teacher (and if his teacher was not a master, his teacher's teacher) and all of the Masters, which split a fee. All holders of the appropriate rank within a certain radius were invited and often had their expenses paid as well. The candidate would then fence anyone from his intended rank and above to display his skill, and they would decide whether or not to award the new rank. These prizes were great entertainment and were often held in taverns and theatres where admission could be charged. On occasion, the Masters would meet and decide to advance a candidate without fighting a prize (I'm sure that fees were still charged :).
Back to the Index
8.2.2 East Kingdom Structure
The requirements for the cording structure are as follows:
Black (Cadet)
Be an authorized fencer and decide to join the structure.

Green (Scholar)
Wear period garb in the list, show reasonable skill in 3 weapons forms, and begin research into period rapier combat.

A candidate needs 5 signatures from Blue Cords or above to advance to this level.

Blue (Provost)
Show reasonable skill in 4 weapons forms, teach and perform general service to the fencing community - marshal, run tourneys.

To advance, one needs 5 signatures from Blue Cords or above, but at least one signature must be from a Gold Cord.

Gold (Don of Fence)
Have all weapons forms and continue to perform above requirements above and beyond the call of sanity, er duty :)

To advance to this rank, the candidate is polled for by the rest of the Gold Cords. A candidate must receive a 2/3's yes by the respondents to advance.
Gold/Intertwined
A gold cord could receive an intertwined color to show advanced work in a certain area:

Not many of these were handed out and it has since fallen into disuse. To receive an intertwined, a candidate must already be a don and receive a 3/4 positive response from respondents.
Back to the Index
8.2.3 Cords vs. OGRE
The EK cording structure is not officially recognized in any way by the rest of the kingdom. Nor does it have anything to do with the OGRE or the EK fencing marshallate. It is a system of recognition that exists for the fencers and is maintained by the fencers. Thus, no titles or other kingdom accolades go with any level or ranking within the structure. Many fencers have received their cords in Aethelmearc and EK court, but it is important to understand that the cords were *received* in court, not awarded by the kingdom/principality.
Back to the Index
8.2.4 Use of the title 'Don or Dona'

Until a few years ago, the title of Don/Dona was reserved for members of the chivalry only. Laurel King at Arms has since reversed this ruling and the title Don/Dona is now available to any gentle who has been awarded an AoA or higher. There are residents of the East Kingdom who use Dona or Don as a title because they have a spanish persona and an Award of Arms, which is fine. Anyway, don't be surprised if Dona Squidia is not a fencer.
Ansteorra officially reserves the title of Don/Dona for the White Scarves. In the other White Scarf kingdoms, as far as I know, the only people who use the title are the White Scarves themselves. In the East, gold cords are frequently referred to as the Dons, but until the reversal by Laurel, they were very careful to refer to themselves as Lord Squid, Don of Fence. This is somewhat akin to referring to oneself as a Master Brewer, but not Master Squid, the brewer (the second one implies a title awarded by the crown). At this point, the use of the title Don/Dona mostly depends on the individual in question; some use it, some don't.
What will be interesting to see is what will happen with the OGRE and the White Scarf treaty. As just about every OGRE is a gold cord (as of April '95 anyway) the point is somewhat moot, but any number of things could happen as the OGRE grows in size.
Back to the Index
8.2.5 EK Cord Database
Lord John of the Endless Quest is now in charge of the Cord database, which includes info including a member's home group, and when they received what cord. If you or someone you know advances to a new ranking, please contact him ASAP with the appropriate information. Also, in order to make sure that older information is in the database, please contact him with your 'cord history.'

He'd like the following information:
SCA/Mundane Name
Cord Rank
Home Group
Event/Date that Rank received
Names of those who signed off (if available)

He can be reached at:
quest@waterw.com
 -or-
Jim Basilone
821 Bridgeboro
Riverside, NJ 08075
Back to the Index
8.2.6 Miscellaneous Notes:
One does not have to be an Easterner to have such a ranking. A few Midrealmers have green or blue cords, earned as Midrealmers (although they play a lot in the East - thereby earning our notice).
A cord ranking does not have any meaning other than described. I've heard many people assume that a blue or a green cord meant that someone is a marshal. While most blues (and quite a few greens) are marshals the cord does not denote this in any way shape or form.
Back to the Index
8.2.7 Debate Over Modifying the Structure
As time passes, organizations take on a life of their own. Weaknesses show themselves, and new ways of doing things emerge. We have been engaged in dialog regarding the structure to make it stronger.
Without going into detail, current topics include:


Back to the Index
8.3 Order of the Guardsman
The Order of the Guardsman was the original EK order for fencing. It was an Order of Honor, not an Order of High Merit, which meant that it carried no precedence, nor was any award (like an AoA) automatically given with it. The Order had a couple of names, none of which passed Laurel King at Arms. It was considered by many to be inadequate and was closed when the OGRE was created.
Back to the Index
8.4 Other Kingdom Fencing Titles and Awards
 Back to the Index
Appendix A:
Commercial Equipment Suppliers:
Disclaimer: I do not represent any of the following equipment suppliers.

  CANADA:

    Fencing Equipment of Canada          Allstar (Herb Obst Agency)
    2407 Bayview Place                   CP 788 Succursdale NDG
    Calgary, Alberta T2V 0L6             Montreal, Quebec H4A 3S2
    TEL: (403) 281-1384                  TEL: (514) 482-2140
    FAX: (403) 281-0043                  FAX: (514) 485-9283
                                         Agents:
    Prieur-PBT                           Halifax: Barbara Daniel
    Vijay Prasad                                  (902) 457-9228
    383 Tamarack Dr.                     Winnipeg: Milton Himsl
    Waterloo, Ontario N2L 4G7                      (204) 284-4138
    TEL: (519) 885-6496                  Ottawa: Ron Millette
    FAX: (519) 888-6197                          (613) 235-2226
                                         Saskatoon: Dennis Duncan
    Riposte PBT                                     (306) 664-8527
    Tibor & Victor Abraham               Vancouver: Zbig Pietrusinski
    113 Iona Ave.                                   (604) 984-2157
    Hamilton, Ontario L8S 2L8
    TEL: (905) 572-7157
    FAX: (905) 528-8894

  USA:

    Triplette Competiton Arms            Blade Fencing Equipment, Inc.
    162 W. Pine St.                      212 West 15th St.
    Mt Airy, NC 27030                    NY, NY 10011
    TEL: (910) 786-5294                  TEL: (212) 620-0114
                                         FAX: (212) 620-0116
    George Santelli, Inc.
    465 South Dean St.                   American Fencers Supply
    Englewood, NJ 07631                  1180 Folsom St.
    TEL: (201) 871-3105                  San Francisco, CA 94103
                                         TEL: (415) 863-7911
    Colonial Distributing
    Fencing Equipment                    Uhlmann International
    PO Box 636                           Wolf Finck, Pres. USA Headquarters
    Cedarburg, Wisconsin 53012           330 N. Fayette Drive
    TEL: (414) 377-9166                  Fayetteville, GA 30214
    FAX: (414) 377-9166                  TEL: (404) 461-3809

    The Fencing Post                     Zivkovic Modern Fencing Equipment
    2543 Monticello Way                  77 Arnold Road
    Santa Clara, CA 95051                Wellesley Hills, MA 02181
    TEL: (408) 247-3604                  TEL: (617) 235-3324

    Cheris Fencing Supply                Southern California Fencers Equipment
    5818 East Colfax Avenue              16131 Valerio Street
    Denver, CO  80220                    Van Nuys, CA   91406
    TEL: (303) 321-8657                  TEL: (818) 997-4538
         1-800-433-6232                  FAX: (818) 998-8385
    FAX: (303) 321-8696                  Hours: 4:30pm - 7:30pm Wed & Thurs

    Alexandre Ryjik Fencing Equipment
    4094 Majestic Lane Suite 163
    Fairfax, VA  22033
    TEL: (703) 818 - 3106
Back to the Index
Created: 05/01/95 at 22:24
Last Updated: 08/08/95 at 21:29
This page is maintained by Dave Weiner E-Mail: wookie@netaxs.com